SIGNIFICANT ABSURDITIES ONE MUST BELIEVE
TO ACCEPT MORMONISM
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yzkCZkhjp_WmU9n6xWjqO0-ivX-ppQ0HrRjy4ItZz-U/edit
The goal here is to provide a list of items that in order to believe Mormonism one must accept the following as true, if one accepts the official narrative of their faith and the words of their prophets. These items are seen as irrational. One may choose to believe them but there are explanations or interpretations in each instance that require less conjecture. For example If I'm out in a cabin in the woods and I hear tapping on the tin roof, it's simply more rational to conclude a raccoon than a space alien. You may still in fact choose to believe the noise was caused by a Space Alien. Yet nearly anyone on the planet would agree the raccoon explanation is more rational than the alien one. But the only reason at all to assume one is more rational than the other is because that explanation accounts for the data with exponentially less conjecture. Anytime you choose the solution or belief that requires more conjecture, you are in fact being irrational. When you take into account a multitude of beliefs or perspectives that each on their own requires more conjecture than other beliefs or perspectives you begin to run into a wall where the statistical improbability is insurmountable.
That Moroni traveled at a minimum between Palmyra NY and Manti Utah around 420 AD traversing wild and harsh landscapes alone across distances essentially unheard of by a single traveler in a relatively short amount of time. (SOURCE)
That Nephi built a ship traveling across the ocean (SEE HERE FOR WHAT THAT ENTAILED)
That the Jaredites built multiple barges carrying animal life and food and seeds and made it across the ocean without regard for what it takes to make such a voyage and care for the items aboard the vessels. (SOURCE FOR ISSUES)
The Lamanites killed 230,000 Nephite soldiers in one day near hill Cumorah. In comparison, the Battle of Antietam, the bloodiest battle in American history, had 3,600 casualties using modern weapons and artillery. Also noting there is zero evidence of such a battle having ever taken place.(SOURCE FOR CONJECTURE NEEDED)
That a civilization (Nephites) lived during essentially the same time period as the Roman Empire, was twice the size of the Roman Empire, yet left no evidence of its existence behind. (SOURCE)
Shiz a Book of Mormon combatant had his head cut off and still raised up. “"And it came to pass that after [Coriantumr] had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised up on his hands and fell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.” This is medically/scientifically impossible.(SOURCE FOR HOW IMPROBABLE. IT APPEARS ONE OR TWO INCIDENTS OF SIMILAR BEHAVIOR)
Nephi cuts off the head of Laban yet somehow avoids getting blood on Laban’s clothes which Nephi in turn undresses the dead body of Laban and places the clothes on himself thereby fooling the servant of Laban for an extended period of time. Height, weight, voice, no blood on the clothes all seems to make for a highly unlikely story that requires way more conjecture.
That while those of African heritage could not hold the priesthood, that the very leaders who dictated they could not, also had African lineage in their DNA (SOURCE)
That God was okay with his modern prophets marrying and having sex with children as young as 14. That it was God’s idea even As Joseph proposedly enacts polygamy with deeply unhealthy and unethical behavior within it. (SOURCE, SOURCE, SOURCE,
That God commanded his prophet to marry and have sex with women who were already married to other men.(SOURCE)
The sealed portion of the Book of Mormon contained the writing of the brother of Jared regarding the last days. This text would have been longer than almost the entire King James Bible and yet only written by one Author.(SOURCE)
That Joseph states in his 1832 earliest personal journal account that he only saw the Lord and later claims to have seen both the Father and the Son. Also noting that each account changes in the specific details, some of which contradict each other.(SOURCE)
That in-spite of most scholars holding that Isaiah was written by multiple authors and one of those authors wrote after Lehi left Jerusalem, still the Brass plates contained this, post Lehi’s journey text.(SOURCE)
That Lehi’s family is strangely referring to themselves as Christians before such a term or belief ever exists and yet don’t ever mention following any Jewish laws, customs, feasts, etc.(SOURCE)
The Book of Mormon names animals that were in Joseph Smith’s day in his contemporary landscape but not believed by almost all experts to have existed in Book of Mormon times. It appears to be anachronistic.(SOURCE - notice the amount of conjecture for faithful view)
In spite of Nephi and the Jaredites taking “seeds of every kind” with them and stating those seeds grew in abundance, there is no sign of any old world crops that would have been expected on those voyages found in America dating to the right entry time period. It appears to be anachronistic.(SOURCE)
That the Jaredite Barges would have a cork on the top and bottom indicating this vessel would be flipped over and over during the trip. Imagine all passengers, livestock, seeds, honeybees, etc… being flipped over and over even if only from time to time. And consider the verse “Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.” Would one not clearly know which hole is up due to gravity and also know when it is safe to unstop the upper hole to exchange air based on when the voyage was calm?(SOURCE)
The Book of Mormon mentions that the barges could not have windows as they could be dashed to pieces. This long before glass windows were invented. So what material could be dashed to pieces? (Source vs 23)
That While Joseph Smith believed he was translating particular Egyptian Papyri into the Book of Abraham, practically no evidence exists pointing to these papyri as the Book of Abraham. This in spite of Joseph telling us that the Book of Abraham was translated from scrolls written "by his (Abraham's) own hand upon papyrus"(SOURCE)
Why Joseph Smith (living in a 2 room house with his whole family) could be woken 3 times in one night to receive instruction with light brighter than the noon day sun, and no one else in the family seemed to notice?(SOURCE)
Joseph Smith sealed himself to 22 other Women before sealing himself to his first wife Emma. (SOURCE)
That Joseph lied to Emma and at other times withheld and obfuscated his relationships to other women to keep Emma as much in the dark as he could.(SOURCE)
This religion attempts to control the underwear you wear and the decibel at which you laugh. (SOURCE, SOURCE)
In spite of Joseph 5 Translation Productions (Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham, Book of Moses, Inspired Bible Translation, and the Kinderhook Plates) containing significant contextual errors and plagiarism from available sources contemporary to Joseph Smith, one must still believe God was behind this inspired compilation (SOURCE).
Why does the Church claim the Inspired version of the bible is a restoration of the corrupted and lost parts of the bible and yet BYU itself acknowledges much of the Inspired translation of the bible is a plagiarism from Adam Clarke’s Bible Commentary, a popular contemporary source to Joseph smith’s day?(SOURCE & SOURCE)
The Sun receives its light from the revolutions of Kolob. “the Sun…. borrow(s) its light from Kolob through the medium of Kae-e-vanrash, which is the grand Key, or, in other words, the governing power, which governs fifteen other fixed planets or stars, as also Floeese or the Moon, the Earth and the Sun in their annual revolutions.” (Reference). Its as if God only comprehends the universe in a limited way that would be similar to how Joseph Smith comprehended the Universe.(SOURCE)
How the ancient author of the Book of Moses seemingly borrowed heavily from Mathew and Luke’s concepts and sentence structure in-spite of that ancient author not having actual access to the books of Luke and Mathew.(SOURCE)
Joseph Smith was able to outrun his enemies on long distances loaded down with gold plates that weighed at a minimum between 40-60 lbs. Additionally, he struck not one, but three of his assailants with such strong force, to stop them dead in their tracks. All while holding the absurdly heavy plates with a single arm. Topography shouldn’t be ignored. The distance between the hill and the Smith home is approximately three miles. In JS’s day the terrain would have been unbearably brutal for anyone running with a 40–60 lb. treasure.(SOURCE)
That Joseph said if anyone unauthorized looked at the plates they would be struck dead and yet he seemed to have deep concern about unauthorized people locating the plates. Why would such be a concern if any unauthorized person would be unable to actually steal and make use of the plates.(SOURCE)
If the plates were made of Gold as Moroni imposed and as Joseph explained that Moroni was concerned Joseph would use the plates for Financial gain, The specific gravity of gold is about 17. A cubic foot of it would weight 17 times the 62 pounds that a cubic foot of water weighs- or about 1054 pounds. Half a cubic foot would weigh more than 500 pounds, more than most grand pianos. A Weight impossible to carry.(SOURCE)
That the entire human race began with two people in Jackson County Missouri. This being the location where our species began, 6000 years ago. That there was no death before the fall of Adam, and that that event occurred a mere 6,000 years ago. (SOURCE)
All of the men set apart as "prophets, seers and revelators" at that given time were fooled by a con artist (Mark Hoffman) who sold them forged documents, and even tried to defend the forged documents as authentic. The same men were also unable to foresee the con artist's murder plot.(SOURCE)
2000 young men (stripling warriors) went to battle against a larger more experienced army. They suffered wounds so severe that they fainted from blood loss and yet not a single one died from the wound nor from infection despite no antibiotics or disinfectant. (SOURCE)
That Modern Prophets from the inception of the Church have pointed to all Native Americans as well as Polynesians and Mexicans and other “tan Skinned” islanders as descendants of the Lamanites and yet modern geneticists agree that 98% of Native Americans have no israelite DNA and the other 2% of these peoples have Israelite DNA that does not enter from the right time period. (SOURCE)
That we are to trust and be confident in Modern Prophets teachings that God condemns homosexual behavior while also recognizing how deeply inconsistent and contradictory Modern leaders have been on explaining why God condemns Homosexual behavior.(SOURCE)
That ultimate truth and sacred principles are taught in the temple ceremony,.which ceremony has been changed multiple times over the years. Additionally, that God’s revealed latter day temple ceremony just happened to be overwhelmingly similar to pre-existing Masonic ceremonies already in practice (Another Plagiarism). And Experts agree that Masonry does not go back further than the 15th century. Women no longer covenant to obey their husbands in the temple. Initiatories completely changed, endowment has gone through many wording, covenant and character changes, the language of sealings changed this year, in an attempt to be more gender neutral. Women no longer covenant to obey their husbands in the temple. But the ordinances NEVER change and are inspired and eternal. (SOURCE)
Much of the Social Change in the Church seems to come about due to apostate voices. Those voices are excommunicated and at the same time many of the changes called for by in their platforms are adopted and implemented with the Church calling them revelation. Sam Young asked for a better approach to interviewing children, he was excommunicated and the Church implements a partial change. Kate Kelly and Ordain Women asked for a larger role for women and less sexism, she was excommunicated and the Church implements a partial changes and calls them revelation. John Dehlin and Bill Reel asks for more historical transparency and honesty, they are exed and the Church implements a partial change and claims they have always been honest and transparent. (SOURCE)
The Church’s leaders claim the Church is experiencing incredible growth at times when the data points to a deep decline in growth and perhaps even loss in active and total numbers. (SOURCE)
While we teach in principle that good behavior and repentance and faith is what makes us worthy of the Celestial Kingdom, The temple teaches us that it is remembering secret handshakes, certain signs and tokens, and certain phrases are what permits us into the Celestial Kingdom.(SOURCE)
Modern Prophets assure us that local leaders have the spirit of discernment and yet a multitude of Pedophilles, scam artists, and other kinds of serious abusers have been called into the callings of Bishop and Stake President. The brings into deep concern issues of trust.
In spite of claims that males hold God’s Priesthood and are capable of healing, modern prophets seem unwilling to spend time in SLC’s Children’s hospital. No one has observed children walking out healed from cancer after blessings and no recorded instance is on record of a verifiable limb being restored. Priesthood power seems relatively non verifiable and unobservable. Utah’s health statistics are better in some areas and worse in others and seem to be in the range of normal. Even leaders seem to acknowledge such in their General conference talks where everyone who is terminally sick dies and “faith not to be healed” is the greater faith.
If the Melchizedek priesthood was used as the name of the most high priesthood in order to prevent the overuse of the name of the Savior. Then why Modern Leaders insist that we use the full name of the church and not mormon. Are we not over using the Savior’s name by requiring such? That Gordon B Hinckley would teach we should use the word Mormon and President Nelson teaching that using the name mormon offends God and is a victory of Satan. Who created the “I am a Mormon campaign” Who created the Mormon Channel? Who created Mormon.org?
The claim we are a living Church where prophets who talk to God are present and yet no new scripture for 30+ years and essentially no major revelation for over 100 years.
That God who created our world really had no idea about astronomy when comparing the kingdoms of glory to the sun, the moon, and the stars. The moon is just reflected light and has no illumination of its own. And the combined brightness of the stars would far exceed the brightness of the single sun in our solar system. In other words God in this case as with many others seems to teach the current understanding of prophets which so happens to also be false information with little evidence that he teaches truth beyond what his modern leaders would already know from their present world.
A second hand source stated that Joseph Smith said people live on the Sun. And we have a first hand account of Brigham Young teaching that Men lived on the Moon.
That God lives on a planet near a star named Kolob.
That three men (The three nephites) walk the earth having not tasted of death and are busy about building the kingdom of God up to the present moment.
That a highly literate, advanced civilization with agriculture, advanced weaponry, coinage, and large scale building projects, with a population numbering in the millions, vanished without a trace less than 2000 years ago, supposedly from an area where we have archeological evidence of other (non-BOM-related) civilizations dating back tens of thousands of years.
That in spite of the drumlin hill in New York being “The Hill Cumorah” (Also the same hill as the Jaredite Hill Ramah) where proposedly battles consisting of millions fighting with swords died, there are no skeletal remains in the hill. Apologists propose a solution of moving the hill to Central/South America which then adds long unreasonable distances to the travels of Moroni, the Book of Mormon’s final author, would have traveled (Between Central/SouthAmerica, Manti Utah, and Palmyra NY.
That while Joseph had the supernatural ability to use a Seer Stone to find lost items and to discern God’s mind and will and to translate the Book of Mormon, he seemingly couldn’t use it to locate the lost 116 pages. It seems irrational that the 116 pages weren’t retranslated, according to Joseph’s reasoning. If he retranslated the 116 pages and the old ones re-emerged and matched, it would have proven he was a prophet. If the old version re-emerged and was in a different handwriting or had edits that showed the only changes in a different handwriting then it would, again, show evidence that Joseph was a prophet and translating correctly. If someone was going to use the old version by changing it and discrediting Joseph’s new version when it was redone then they could have done the exact same thing with Nephi 1 and 2 anyway, by making a fake manuscript. The only reason not to retranslate the original 116 pages would be if Joseph knew it would come out differently from his own mind and hence very different from the original, and thereby discredit him in the eyes of Martin Harris and others who had read the original.
That God would instruct Joseph to use the same seer stone for God’s work that was seemingly used to scam people as a money digger and scryer.
While God and Nephites had prepared and set aside an instrument to translate the plates (The Nephite Spectacles AKA Urim and Thummim), Joseph sets such aside and instead uses a seer stone placed into a hat whereby he would bury his face and exclude all light. An instrument he used to pretend to see fictional treasure in order to be hired and paid for the act of treasure digging.
That God was concerned that the enemies of this work were holding the 116 pages and were conspiring to alter it in some way so that if Joseph reproduced them, there would be apparent discrepancies. When thought about logically, this seems absurd when thinking practically about how this would play out.
That magical special feelings are anything more than regular chemical reactions like all the rest of the feelings you experience. Hunger? That's a chemical reaction. Surprise? That's a chemical reaction. A warm toasty feeling in your heart? That's God. In spite of scientists knowing that this feeling is natural and the body and mind can be tricked into feeling it. It is called “Elevation Emotion”
How about the curse of Cain continuing through Ham? If Ham was white then his wife needed to be Black. Their offspring would only be 50/50 and I’d assume the darker complexion would continue to diminish since all the other incestuous family and offspring were white, right? What am I missing because if the flood was real there should no longer be any distinguishing ultra dark-skinned peoples. Correct?
That Joseph Smith, with his own treasure-seeking history and that of his family’s history of treasure seeking, money digging, and mysticism, having had no success at all at finding buried treasure, charged in court on at least two occasions of fraud, and being a disorderly person, miraculously discovers the burial place of ancient gold plates (Another buried treasure) protected by another guardian spirit, then translates said plates by means of placing a rock (which he found while treasure-digging) in a hat and reading what was presented on said rock.
In spite of God saying (D&C Section 132) that Polygamy is to raise up seed and must be done only with virgin women and only after getting the permission of the first wife, Joseph smith seemingly breaks all of God’s rules while still claiming to be doing God’s work.
Because both the Old Testament and the Book of Mormon speak of the Tower of Babel and that said story is coming from two entirely different peoples, one must accept that there was a literal tower, and at that tower God confounded all languages in spite of our modern understanding of how languages were derived and changed over time. Above and beyond that this tower was built so tall so as to reach into heaven. Consider our understanding of the universe and how far it is to get above the atmosphere and how tall building are in modern times with access to modern building materials and equipment and know how and the story of a tower this tall becomes absurd and then to have God, diverging languages because of it becomes irrational.
While Mormonism claims to have prophets who speak to God, there is essentially no idea or information put forth that seems to fit the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator titles.
That God would have Joseph Smith manipulate vulnerable young girls into sex and marriage often giving them deadlines and imposing consequences in harsh language that can easily be seen as eternal damnation for saying no. This includes Joseph approaching multiple young girls after inviting them to work or live in his home.
That Native American ancestor’s skins were darkened as a sign of a curse so they would be undesirable and the righteous wouldn’t “mix” with them in spite of our modern awareness of how skin pigment works and when such colorations roughly occurred. (official manuals and 2 Nephi chapter 5 continue to teach such doctrines regardless of what apologists say).
In addition to the item above, one must believe that such a curse of skin color will be reversed by God as a direct result of accepting the gospel - in accordance with one's righteousness. See SWK's 1960 General Conference address. That Skin color among a collective tribe can just come and go based on curses being placed and lifted by God is completely contrary to how the world works.
Scriptural prophets generally go out and preach to groups of people who don’t believe in their teachings or may outright hate the prophet or group of believers. They put their lives in danger and face criticism to their arguments. Modern prophets tend to only preach to believers. They travel around the world to wards and stakes that welcome them with open arms. They tend not to have to face criticism---lawyers, the PR department, and unofficial apologists tend to deal with most of the criticism.
That in 1886 Jesus told John Taylor that polygamy could never be taken off the earth regardless of what pressures arise only to have Wilford Woodruff in 1890 when pressures arise claiming Jesus wants the Church to end polygamy.
That Wilford Woodruff in 1890 would claim a revelation effectively ending polygamy, only to privately be instructing a small number of saints claiming revelation that they are to continue polygamy at all costs.
Scriptural prophets generally gave up all their worldly wealth to preach the gospel. They often come from humble circumstances, but if they didn’t they may have given up their wealth when they go to preach. Modern prophets get paid a stipend of at least 120,000 USD a year (along with other substantial financial benefits). Most modern day prophets come from wealthy families, and most modern day prophets themselves are fairly well-to-do. None of them sacrifice financial wealth in order to preach the Gospel.
Scriptural prophets sometimes prophesy of future events. When they speak directly with God they tell the public that God spoke directly with them and that they are delivering God's message to them. Modern prophets don’t seem to ever prophesy of future events. They sometimes hint that they speak with God but it is difficult to say for sure. Virtually any stories of them seeing God come from third party accounts. One is never certain if the message they are delivering came from God or is their own opinion based on their reading of scripture.
Modern prophets stating the way out of poverty is paying more tithing. Logically that is completely contrary to anything rational. If true Mormons would be the most wealthy people on the planet. And Bishops storehouses would only be minimally needed. A people collectively exiting poverty by paying tithing is irrational. (Resource)
Teaching members to pay tithing even before buying food to feed your children
None of the first animals the Lehi's family sees when they come to America are native to America nor understood by scholars to have been present there: 1 Nephi 18 [25] And it came to pass that we did find upon the land of promise, as we journeyed in the wilderness, that there were beasts in the forests of every kind, both the cow and the ox, and the ass and the horse, and the goat and the wild goat, and all manner of wild animals, which were for the use of men. And we did find all manner of ore, both of gold, and of silver, and of copper. While there were wild goats in America, you could only find them in the Rocky Mountains, far distant from where Lehi is believed to have landed..
God seemingly felt it was more important for his people to avoid coffee and tea then to warn them about boiling water or washing hands to prevent infection. And God seemingly is unconcerned with many other things his people partake of that do deeper harm to the body such soda drinks. The Word of Wisdom that seemed to descend from Heaven and promise health and vigor to all who lived it. The WoW taught Mormons a century in advance to avoid tobacco. Except that contemporary sources such as Sylvester Graham’s health code of the day. He advocated eating lots of fruits and vegetables, little to no meat, no coffee, tea, liquor or tobacco. Whole wheat to make homemade bread, no ground up flour from the local mill.
God told the prophet that we shouldn't drink hot drinks, so we don't drink coffee or tea, but we do drink hot chocolate, because one of the brothers of the prophet once clarified that "hot drinks" means coffee and tea, and so we also can't drink iced tea or iced coffee, because they're coffee and tea, which are "hot drinks".
The While Joseph Smith taught that a patriarch in the modern Church was the same office as Evangelist in the Ancient Church, all evidence points to these being two very different things. That we claim to have restored the structure Christ instituted with our corresponding 12 apostles, but then don’t acknowledge that the First Presidency doesn’t fit with that structure.
Joseph Smith reported receiving priesthood keys from both Elias and Elijah. When in fact Scholars agree they are simply two different names for the same person. The naming convention here differing in the new versus old testament.
While Brigham Young adamantly taught that Adam was Heavenly Father, more recent leaders have denounced President Young’s teaching casting doubt on how we know when to trust the teaching of prophets (Brigham Young clearly taught he knew this teaching was true because it came via revelation and that many of the Saints knew it was true by revelation RESOURCE)
While claiming to speak to God directly, Modern leaders lean heavily on surveys and pilot programs when seemingly God could just tell them what will and wont work and what the needs of his children are. In conjunction Modern prophets often point to the world as lost and fallen and yet seemingly move in the same direction as the world on social issues other than they often lag 30-60 years behind.
Modern Prophets in the past teaching that those of color were less valiant in the pre-earth life as Doctrine going so far as to place it in official letters only to have later leaders disavow said teachings as disavowed theories. Again deeply challenging trust in them as having ability to discern truth from error.
That the LDS church claims the high moral ground on what is proper marriage, with their sordid history of polygamy, polyandry, young brides, and sexual abuse
God harvests “intelligences” from outer space, turns them into spirits and then sends them to earth, removing all memories of him. God designs only one true religion and chooses a man with fairly questionable morality (treasure digging, hiding female relationships from his wife, and having relationships with intimate dynamics with children). Only a tiny percentage of the world’s population joins this religion, and an even smaller portion attain the necessary pieces to return to God (hats, handshakes and secret names). This religion requires complete devotion and control, even down to earrings, underwear and dietary restrictions, decibel of laughing. When followers leave this religion, family members are perplexed and devastated and taught on multiple layers to see their loved one as broken, as having insincere reasons for leaving, and as apostates not to be trusted.
That Joseph's seer stone has been in the possession of the church for all these years, yet none of the subsequent prophets, seers, or revelators have figured out how to make it work or sought one of their own. Strangely, significantly less revelation has happened with all the prophets since Joseph not using one than those claimed by the man who did use one.
We’ve gone from Brigham Young saying that an interracial couple should be killed on sight, to having interracial couples pictured in the Ensign. Again how do we know when prophets are right? Or wrong if both the prophet and his followers struggle to discern at any given time?
Brigham Young University with multiple Apostles and Prophets sitting on its board and a future Apostle as its president, condoned and permitted Electric Shock Therapy as a possible treatment for “curing” Homosexuality. Today the Church condemns such as not healthy or viable.
Spencer Kimballs’s First Presidentcy sent a official letter out in 1982 condemning Oral Sex only to retract it a short time later after an uproar of negative feedback.
Earlier prophets stating that the physically and mentally handicapped were less valiant in the premortal life only to slowly move to those folks being the most valiant in the pre-earth life.
That Alma seemingly knows exactly how Abinidi’s conversation goes during the space of time he had been kicked out and chased off and not present for the words of Abinadi
With the story of Moses in the Old Testament, Mormon prophets taught as doctrine that God sent His destroying angel to murder the firstborn children as a means to soften the heart of the Pharaoh so that he would let the Israelite people go free (churchofjesuschrist). And the prophets confirmed such many times in General Conference. God is supposed to love everyone equally, yet here he murders innocent firstborn children. The doctrine is that man will be punished for his own sins and not for Adam’s transgression. This is yet another contradiction. This story never occurred. It is a myth. (LDS.org: Moses).
That Adam and Eve were literal historical figures around 6000 years ago and that they are the common ancestors of all of humanity when it is known that various humans have been around for millions of years. And Homo-Sapiens for at least 30,000 to 100,000 years.
Mormon prophets claimed that God regretted created mankind and thus chose to flood the entire earth (Noah story) and murder all humanity and all animals. While apologists make space for a local small scale flood, Modern prophets have taught a literal Global Flood that covered the whole earth in which the Earth was baptized. All scientific evidence says that a full flood is not possible, yet church says you need to be believe in a total-earth-encompassing flood (See Reasons why a Global Flood is absurd)
The juxtaposition of Christ in the old world on the cross asking his father to forgive the soldiers that were torturing him saying ‘Father, forgive them they no not what they do” Then he assured the criminals on each side of him that he would see them in paradise that day, but then in the New World, Christ goes on a killing rampage burning some cities, sinking others, lots and lots of men, women and children are murdered by Christ destroying the landscape with earthquakes and fires. On top of that Mormon Jesus then brags about it in the Book of Mormon to those still left.
Joseph stated that Moroni instructed him to bring Alvin with him in order to retrieve the plates. Over the course of the next year Alvin dies. Seemingly pointing to Moroni being unaware of how such would unfold. And it begs the question, is it not logical to assume God himself instructed Moroni to instruct Joseph of the needed requirement to bring Alvin?
God stating that having multiple wives/polygamy is an abomination before Him and that He will not suffer this people to practice it, etc. (LDS.org: D&C 98) (LDS.org 2 N 5:21); then later, His prophets proclaiming contradictory statements that are to be accepted as His doctrine. Brigham Young said, "Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p. 266). Also, "The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 269).
God threatening to destroy Emma in the D&C: “And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and cleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law [polygamy]. And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things [polygamy], then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law [polygamy]” (D&C 132:54);
The missionary, Ammon, killing those who scattered the flocks and cutting off many of the arms of others. Ammon had been unrighteous, persecuting the members of the church (we don’t know the exact details), and he was rebuked by an angel and allowed to repent, but the robbers who stole King Lamani’s sheep were not treated with a comparable mercy. Ammon was not defending his life from them because the Lord promised his father Mosiah that his sons’ lives would be protected during their missions. So why was he so cruel? And why is he seen as such a great missionary when he seriously harmed those men? And a prophet running around against a significant number of men cutting off their arms is also on its own far-fetched.
God proclaiming in the Book of Mormon, “…Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth. And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth…” (LDS.org: 1 N 14:10-11). Whore repeated 3 times for emphasis.
God cursing all those who mix with those who have the dark skin curse (2 Nephi 5:23), (Alma 3:8) Wilford Woodruff said that the mixed children should be killed too. (http://www.mormonthink.com/blackweb.htm)
God cursing Cain, the Lamanites, and their posterities and others with dark skin: “And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.” (2 Nephi 5:21);
The witnesses were highly gullible people, practicing “second sight,” using divining rods, finding treasure by placing a rock in a hat, etc. The three witnesses have no credibility. Their gullibility is illustrated by an incident in July 1837. Joseph Smith had left on a five-week missionary tour to Canada, only to find on his return that all three of the Witnesses had joined a faction opposing him. This faction rallied around a young girl who claimed to be a seeress by virtue of a black stone in which she read the future. David Whitmer, Martin Harris, and Oliver Cowdery all pledged her their loyalty, and Frederick G. Williams, formerly Joseph's First Counselor, became her scribe. The girl seeress would dance herself into a state of exhaustion, fall to the floor, and burst forth with revelations. (Lucy Smith: Biographical Sketches, pp. 211-213).
Martin Harris said: “I never saw the gold plates, only in a visionary or entranced state.” (Ref: "Origin and History of the Mormonites," (The Eclectic Magazine of Foreign Literature, Science, and Art, late 1850)
Joseph Smith taught: “[A]s the Holy Ghost falls upon one of the literal seed of Abraham, it is calm and serene… while the effect of the Holy Ghost upon a Gentile, is to purge out the old blood, and make him actually of the seed of Abraham. That man that has none of the blood of Abraham (naturally) must have a new creation by the Holy Ghost. In such a case, there may be more of a powerful effect upon the body, and visible to the eye, than upon an Israelite.” (Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church, v. 3, p. 380+) “[JosephSmith taught] that the Gentile blood was actually cleansed out of their veins, and the blood of Jacob made to circulate in them; and the revolution and change in the system were so great that it caused the beholder to think they were going into fits.” (Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 2, p. 269).
Temple patrons previously promised that if they were ever to reveal the tokens/gestures of the ceremony, they would be subject to the following:
Stage 1 : "my throat ... be cut from ear to ear, and my tongue torn out by its roots."Stage 2 : "our breasts ... be torn open, our hearts and vitals torn out and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."Stage 3 : "our body ... be cut asunder and all your bowels gush out."
The vocalization of these specific methods of death was removed between 1921 and 1927. The endowment also included an oath of vengeance which stated:
“You and each of you do covenant and promise that you will pray and never cease to pray to Almighty God to avenge the blood of the prophets upon this nation, and that you will teach the same to your children and to your children's children unto the third and fourth generation.”
These, and many other things, have all been removed from the endowment. See a greater list of endowment changes here: (LDS Endowment). This contradicts what Joseph Smith proclaimed:
"Ordinances instituted in the heavens before the foundation of the world, in the priesthood, for the salvation of men, are not to be altered or changed…. He set the temple ordinances to be the same forever and ever and set Adam to watch over them, to reveal them from heaven to man, or to send angels to reveal them" (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol. 4, p. 208 ) (Intro to Family History Student Manual) (emphasis added).
That murdering Laban was the ONLY possible way to get the plates. Which god wanted the Nephites to have and use. God couldn’t figure out any other way where Nephi didn’t have to commit the greatest sin. We all are left having to tell ourselves that yeah, I guess sometimes God is ok with murder, as long as he tells you to. Well, I think he can figure out a way to accomplish what he needs without having to do something universally morally wrong. Especially in light of the fact that Joseph smith didn’t need the plates. They essentially always were covered or not even in the room for the translation. Could God have given the Nephites the brass plates via the same mode, hence not really needing them?
--See #3 -- The Jaredites had sufficient food and fresh water to survive with their livestock and bees for a YEAR. 2000 calories per person *365 = 730,000 per person. For a year ..e.g. roughly 560 lbs of beef jerky per person. Plus 262 gallons of water per person. None of this accounts for the animals
That God’s one true church in the last days would have less than .2% of the world’s population as members and likely less than .006% who are active members.
That God cursed the waters in the latter-days and Satan rides in them. This is commonly offered as the reason why missionaries aren’t allowed to go swimming (see D&C 61)
In the 1981 Guidebook titled, Homosexuality, it is taught that early masturbation could lead to homosexuality. Found in section 1, An overview of Homosexuality, subsection B., #4 Early Homosexual Experience. (The whole guidebook is pretty absurd https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documents/4/4c/Homosexuality-1981.pdf
Modern Prophets on several occasions have taught that April 6 is Christ’s real birthday (based on a misreading of John Whitmers Scribal entry for D&C 20:1) (LDS Living itself concludes based on the best scholarship that it’s not). https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2014/05/sunday-morning-session/bear-up-their-burdens-with-ease?lang=eng&fbclid=IwAR13cS8rGWPAjK6ekMajGsc_S0AtBP-AbMo5YPlKZ76TW0Inrt7ji1lkTiohttp://www.ldsliving.com/Was-Jesus-Born-in-December-After-All-What-Prophets-and-Apostles-Have-Said/s/80634?fbclid=IwAR17fPAwDFO54-qcQMtd65jqxvoygN1dYRVEHyflKmmtadk7Ua3dtc9cGoc
In the temple film premortal Peter, James, and John gave handshake tokens to Adam and Eve in the garden, but Joseph Smith said an unresurrected spirit will not shake your hand
Based on logic if the LDS plan of salvation is thought through, it appears that more people will be exalted by dying before the age of eight than will accept the Gospel while on earth.
That the Book or Mormon, supposedly written and abridged centuries before the King James version of the bible was translated, had many of the precise translation, interpolation, and anachronistic errors that the King James version of the bible had.
When Lehi and Co. were lost in the wilderness, instead of guiding them by revelation using a still small voice to His prophet, God went and Secret Santa'd to them a magical, brass, ball-shaped compass. But this compass didn't use magnetic poles, the sun in the sky, or the stars. It pointed the way when there was enough faith wafting through the air to power its spindles. This Liahona was said to have been found in the same box as the gold plates yet no one ever saw it. . It's not known why God didn't just use the Liahona to provide written translations and instructions to Smith and instead allowed Joseph to use his treasure digging peepstone.
Masturbation is deemed wrong in spite of 99% of males young men along with much of the primate family drawn to the behavior naturally. (as well as Cetaceans,Elephants,Walrus,Rodents,Bats,Lizards,Turtles). Humans didn’t invent masturbation. We get the urge because our ancestors did too, even back to the earliest mammals and reptiles. It’s likely that as soon as animals evolved brain circuitry that made stimulating sexual organs rewarding, individuals started taking the opportunity to reward themselves. The art of self-pleasure has been observed in males from about 80 species. Walrusses even porform felatio on themselves. Once you get that behavior doesn’t originate from an invisible being named Satan and instead is part of hundreds of thousands of years of Evolution, our stances of a behavior as evil or Sin becomes ridiculous.
Satan and how he operates within the LDS gospel plan is illogical. He could thwart the plan simply by ceasing his participation. He somehow is believed to be cunning and yet unable to connect the dots on better ways to ruin God’s work. And if that is reconciled by stating that Satan is unnecessary (If he ceased there would still be opposition) then one need not believe in him anyway.
Homosexuality is deemed wrong in spite of 500 species having Homosexuality within their behaviors. We also know that Homosexuality is epigentic meaning there are genetic factors showing Homosexuality is linked to human development. For example certain types of finger length have a significant increase in the rate of Homosexuality as well as birth order. Humans didn’t invent Homosexuality. Once you get that behavior doesn’t originate from an invisible being named Satan and instead is part of hundreds of thousands of years of Evolution, our stances of a behavior as evil or Sin becomes ridiculous.
There is an ordinance that only a select few members receive called the Second Annointing. This ordinance is what many leaders have referred to getting you “calling and election made sure”. This is believed to guarantee you Celestial Kingdom rather than the endowment and intiatories and sealing promising you the Celestial Kingdom based on your faithfulness. In other words those who have received the Second Annointing have made it. You would think to get this ordinance that the Holy Ghost or Jesus would speak to leaders and tell them who the righteous are. But that isn’t how it works. Those who receive the ordinance were referred to receive it from other who had received it before them, and they in turn then recommend others. So rather than some spiritual revelation given to determine who is righteous and who is not, it is simply a religious MLM Country Club where all what counts is who you know.
Leaders portrayed forever that this was a lay unpaid volunteer ministry and seemingly forgot to inform membership that the top leaders get a 6 figure salary with lots of other additional perks (free health insurance, free car, gifted homes and property, free education for their posterity, free airfare, free lodging, an communal escrow account and debit card to use against it ) and a believed lump sum on the front end.
Modern Prophets who have claimed to know Jesus and who approve the Church artwork depicting Jesus have always favored a bearded, long haired, Caucasian European Jesus. This is almost assuredly not what a person in Jesus’ culture would have looked like in that time period in the Palestine area and in the Jewish culture. In fact his name also wouldn’t be Jesus. He was named Yeshua Bar Yosef. The Yeshua translated into English is Joshua. But when you run it through a greek translation first and then English it becomes Jesus. Surely Prophets who speak to him would know that.
In Lucy Mack’s History Lucy records a dream by Joseph Smith Sr. that is too similar and matching to Lehi’s vision of the Tree of Life to raise serious concerns.
While the LDS Church claims to “believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes.” Think about that logically. First there is no population of of a Jewish tribe living in some remote undiscovered place as many modern leaders taught in the past. And in our modern world this idea is illogical. On top of that only .2% of the human population is Mormon and that % is decreasing in our modern world. We barely gathering in anyone not mention a lost and scattered tribe of israel that exists in some location we don’t know about. Or to gather in folks mixed into the general population in some unique mystical way.